“I’m afraid I must insist.  You see, my wife, she has been most vocal on the subject of the pretzel monies.  ‘Where’s the money?’  ‘When are you going to get the money?’  ‘Why aren’t you getting the money now?’ and so on.  So, please, da money.” – Fat Tony

In an attempt to fill the summer with love, hate and pointless Simpsons commentary we at the Dead Homer Society are going to spend some time overthinking Season 8.  Why Season 8?  Because Season 8 is when The Simpsons really began to deteriorate into Zombie Simpsons.  That’s why.  Because we’re cutting edge and ultra-modern we’re using a newfangled, information-superhighway fad called a “chatroom” to conduct our conversation.  This text has been edited for clarity and spelling (especially on “Glengarry Glen Ross”).

Today’s episode is 811, “The Twisted World of Marge Simpson“, and tomorrow is 815 “Homer’s Phobia“.

Charlie Sweatpants: Twisted first?

Or Phobia first?

Mad Jon: I say the pretzel one,

Dave: let’s tread familiar ground and do the bad one first.

Charlie Sweatpants: I would say “worse” one first. I like the pretzel episode.

Dave: “worse” is fair

Charlie Sweatpants: It’s long off the mountain top, but it’s still very funny.

Dave: really you think so?

Mad Jon: I am kind of indifferent to it,

Dave: i find it kinda boring

Charlie Sweatpants: I can see that, but this is one of those episodes that grew on me the more I watched it.

Mad Jon: There are some pretty funny parts, but where the hell did Marge get $500 bucks to be in the “investorettes” to begin?

If Homer’s family isn’t living paycheck to paycheck then nobody is

Charlie Sweatpants: The strange ardor of her rivals is one of the worst parts of this one.

Dave: yeah, Marge is known to worry about money regularly

See: 90 dollar Chanel dress

Charlie Sweatpants: Indeed.

Mad Jon: “…outside interests are stupid.”

Charlie Sweatpants: That paycheck-to-paycheck thing is a good point that I kinda dismissed until right now.

I mean, this is clearly them getting away from their upper-lower-middle class roots into a more prosperous tax bracket.

Mad Jon: Maybe they finally found that $40,000 check they hadn’t cashed yet

Charlie Sweatpants: Hehe.

Dave: heh

Charlie Sweatpants: When I said earlier that I liked this one more on reruns, that’s true for a lot of what I think are the better parts of Season 8.

Once I didn’t need to follow the plot (because I knew how it ended) the “suspense” was gone and I could focus more on the jokes.

For example, at the end when Fat Tony is threatening them it’s not the least bit funny when you first watch it.

Dave: so from that perspective, what jokes worked for you?

Charlie Sweatpants: Perfect example: there are two bags Marge brings home, one is labeled “Ingredients” the other “Salt”.

That’s dead on, but I’m almost positive I didn’t notice it until at least the second viewing.

Dave: that’s actually pretty funny

I’ve never noticed that

Charlie Sweatpants: Which is not to say that this episode doesn’t have problems. Homer stabbing himself in the eye with a hot dog springs to mind.

That’s definitely a Zombie Homer thing to do.

Dave: Frank Ormond gives off a terrible Gil vibe

Mad Jon has left

Charlie Sweatpants: Ah fuck, we lost Jon again.

Dave: yep…

Charlie Sweatpants has left

Charlie Sweatpants has joined

Jon has joined

Dave: are we back guys?

Mad Jon: Ah, that’s better

Charlie Sweatpants: I’m here.

I was worried for a second that I’d lost the history, but it’s there.

Mad Jon: Where did you guys leave off?

Charlie Sweatpants has left

Dave: there goes Charlie again…

Charlie Sweatpants has joined

Charlie Sweatpants has left

Mad Jon: God, he’s like a deadbeat dad

Dave: haha

Charlie Sweatpants has joined

Charlie Sweatpants: We back, again?

Mad Jon: yep

Dave: yep

let’s try this again

Charlie mentioned the hot dog in the eye bit

Charlie Sweatpants: Then one of you, forget which, mentioned the Gil vibe from Frank Ormond.

Dave: that’s the last I have

I mentioned the Gil/Frank connection

Mad Jon: Not me, my connection dropped shortly after the middleclass comments

Charlie Sweatpants: Yeah, I lost that. Assuming we don’t get dropped again, can you guys e-mail me your chat transcripts when we’re done?

Dave: no problem

I think I’ve got everything from the beginning

Charlie Sweatpants: Good, because I don’t.

Mad Jon: I can’t find anything

Dave: you missed the part where you were called a deadbeat dad

Charlie Sweatpants: Can you copy/paste everything from my middle class thing?

Dave: yep

Charlie Sweatpants: That ought to get us back on the same page and then I can edit it seamlessly tomorrow. (With today’s modern editing techniques we can finish the movie without Milhouse.)

Dave: you’re fired

Charlie Sweatpants: And with good cause.

Okay, so shall we pick up from the Gil vibe on Frank Ormond thing?

You guys there?

Dave: yep

Charlie Sweatpants: Jon?

Mad Jon: yeah sorry, I was reading the transcript from when I dropped

Charlie Sweatpants: Jebus fucking Christ, chatroom problems, what is this 1996?

Mad Jon: ha ha

Dave: I’m fairly confident none of us cares much for Gil’s character; Ormond seems almost like a Gil prototype

luckily he dies

and then we forget about him and the mob enters the picture

Charlie Sweatpants: What I was going to say was that there’s a reason for Gil’s similarity to Frank and that’s that Jack Lemmon voiced Frank and Gil was based on Lemmon’s character in “Glengarry Glen Ross”.

Mad Jon: ah

Dave: ah.

Charlie Sweatpants: Jinx.

Mad Jon: Yeah, that may be clever, but it has clearly been lost on me, and I am a rabid fan of the show

Charlie Sweatpants: Ah, but are you a David Mamet fan?

Mad Jon: Not that I know of

Dave: me either, what’s the connection?

Charlie Sweatpants: But isn’t that what made the show so great? It was so chalk full of things that you had to look them up.

Mad Jon: You’re right, I guess I’ll just shut my big mouth

Charlie Sweatpants: Don’t feel bad, I’ve looked up more shit from this show than I can remember.  I once got an answer right in a pretty competitive game of Trivial Pursuit because of the George Meany thing in Bart of Darkness.

But yeah, the demise of Frank doesn’t have a whole lot to do with the rest of the episode.

I mean, had he and the executor of his estate been alive, what exactly would they have done that would’ve resolved the problem?

Dave: I agree with you Charlie, but Ormond doesn’t do it for me

Mad Jon: At least Ormond didn’t distract from the episode which is the fate of most Zombie throw away characters

Mad Jon: And his front yard was pretty neat

Charlie Sweatpants: Yeah, I like Homer’s line about Mr. Pretzel man doing pretty well for himself after he sees all the lawn crap you only see in front of double wides and post war bungalows.

Dave: I did like the cavalcade of Cletus’ offspring

Charlie Sweatpants: The Cletus thing is funny.

Mad Jon: And it gave us the line “Shoulda but didn’t” in a hillbilly accent

Charlie Sweatpants: Were those all supposed to be celebrity names (Q-bert excepted)? I remember hearing Rumor and Scout which I think were the kids of Bruce Willis and Demi Moore (I’m slightly embarrassed I know that.)

Dave: I’m embarrassed to say you’re right

Mad Jon: That would be lost on me to. Which is too bad, as these things would have made my viewing experience better

Charlie Sweatpants: “Shoulda but didna” is a classic, and that’s one of the reasons I like this episode.

There are a lot of those.

“And here come the Pretzels . . . ”

Dave: whitey wackers

Mad Jon: Oh yeah, the ball game is great

Charlie Sweatpants: “You see, my wife, she has been most insistent on the matter of the pretzel money . . . ”

Dave: and “forgiveness, please”

Charlie Sweatpants: Yes.

Mad Jon: Ha ha

Dave: speaking of, what do you guys think of the mob war that ends the episode?

Charlie Sweatpants: That end scene, though, is one where you can kinda see the devolution into Zombie Simpsons happening.

Dave: enough resolution? or campy bullshit?

Charlie Sweatpants: They handle it pretty swiftly, most of the violence is off screen, but it still feels like they’re wasting time when compared to stuff that came before it.

Though I should say that when Fat Tony says “C’mere you little squirt” I crack up every time.

Mad Jon: Bleh. It was comical, but it was definitely a quick wrap up. They brought back the investorettes who where nice enough to bring the Japanese mafia, but then there’s fighting and everyone goes inside?

Charlie Sweatpants: Exactly.

It’s still funny, but it’s clearly a less than smooth ending.

Dave: it’s a lazy ending

Charlie Sweatpants: It’s like this episode was caught in a netherworld between needing a B plot and not needing a B plot.

There isn’t quite enough there for a whole 22 minutes, but there’s more than they could get to in 2/3 of the screen time.

Dave: agreed

Mad Jon: Good point. It was like there was an A plot and an A’ Plot

Dave: seems like the conclusion we’ve come to is serviceable, but not excellent

Charlie Sweatpants: Okay, to sum up, I despise ranking for this type of stuff, but for you guys is this the top, middle or bottom of 8?

And feel free to disregard that structuring.

Dave: i’d say lower middle

Mad Jon: Well, I’m out of both praise and criticism for this episode, and also beer. But I’ll vote for a middle of 8 episode. And also I’ll be right back.

Charlie Sweatpants: I’d like to go higher than lower middle, but there are a lot of ones here that are better.

Dave: okay, i’m fine with middle

but certainly not top of 8

Charlie Sweatpants: No.

Mad Jon: No, not the top

Charlie Sweatpants: Definitely not.

Perhaps our “meh” conclusion here is indicative of the foggy haze that envelopes Season 8.

It’s clearly still funny, and yet it’s clearly not as good as what came before it.

Mad Jon: It’s like playing fetch with your 11 year old dog

Charlie Sweatpants: I’m gonna need a punchline on that one.

Mad Jon: He

Charlie Sweatpants: Going for the apostrophe and hit “enter” didn’t you?

Mad Jon: He’ll still chase em down, but by the time he brings the ball back, you’re bored

Charlie Sweatpants: I’ll buy that.

Mad Jon: And yes, I missed the apostrophe. You happy?

Charlie Sweatpants: Any favorite/hated moments in this one?

Dave: the hotdog moment is pretty bad

Charlie Sweatpants: My most hated is probably the hot dog in the eye. I can forgive the mob suspense because it doesn’t seem to drag so much on repeats.

Dave: and i’ve already mentioned my favorite, the “forgiveness, please” bit

so we think a bit alike, what’s wrong with that?

Charlie Sweatpants: Hopefully nothing.

Mad Jon: you guys are probably fine

Charlie Sweatpants: I don’t know if I’d call it the best line, but I always get a kick out of the franchise guys at the beginning.

Both the “moon money” exchange and the guy who’s selling the picture straightening thing.

Mad Jon: Yeah, I like the picture straightening questions

Charlie Sweatpants: “those fatcats in Washington?” What hasn’t been sold with that kind of an appeal?

Dave: precious little

Charlie Sweatpants: Okay, any final thoughts?

Or should we move on?

Dave: let’s move on

Mad Jon: Let’s move on

Charlie Sweatpants: Jinx (x2)