“Well, I guess this is it.” – Lisa Simpson
“You mean, like, goodbye?” – Nelson Muntz
“Let’s just call it, smell you later.” – Lisa Simpson
Around the edges of “Lisa’s Date with Density” you can see the problems that, given a few years, would swoop in and eat the show from the inside out. The emotions are a bit contrived in places, Nelson’s not quite the bully we know, and the plot has to cheat a few times to wrap itself up. But in Season 8 those things are peripheral, the core of the story and the episode fit in with the place we know as Springfield and the characters who inhabit it. Just as importantly, while there’s no denying that Lisa and Nelson are acting a bit more adolescent and less kid like than they should, there’s still a recognizable childishness and humanity to them that makes the story work.
Lisa doesn’t, for example, develop her crush on Nelson because of some cliched contrivance. He doesn’t save her from something; nor does she glimpse him in a candid moment of tenderness when he thought no one was looking. She just laughs at him being him, in this case tormenting Groundskeeper Willie. This is one of those things that just works in The Simpsons. We in the audience get to laugh at Groundskeeper Willie; Nelson (in detention) and Lisa (in band practice) are being themselves (and so are the other kids with their “x likes y” refrains); and the main story moves along without resorting to nonsense.
“And that’s how Willie waters.”
By contrast, in “The Daughter Also Rises” Zombie Simpsons employs a “meet cute”, one of the more hacktacular ideas ever to come out of the entertainment industry. (It’s a concept so durably overused that it has its own article on TV Tropes and Wikipedia.) That they call it a “meet cute” isn’t a joke, it’s just them describing what’s happening. Where’s the joke in Lisa gushing and her new beau throwing a fork in the air? Or their stilted flirting as they instantly anticipate a love for the ages? There isn’t one, the whole thing is dead-eyed, paint-by-numbers crap. Hollywood is littered with writers and actors who can do this scene in their sleep, because it’s not just a trope, it’s an adult trope for adult performers and adult characters.
Things just get worse from there. Lisa and Nick go through three goofy set pieces, each one the same kind of sly, fake-clever horseshit. First they’re at an outdoor cafe, where this supposed kid is looking all charming and suave in a gray suit. Then they’re in a montage where they hang out a balcony, on top of a climbing wall, and Moe’s (of all places) as they go through a few vaguely Hemingway type situations. And finally, Nick shows up at the Simpson home with a bottle of wine before he charms both Marge and Maggie (we’ll get to the after-dinner fiasco in a second). None of these scenes make any sense for them as kids, for them as characters, or for Springfield as a location.
I think this kid’s dad is Andre from “Homer’s Triple Bypass”.
In Season 8, Lisa and Nelson go through a much more believable childhood flirtation. Lisa likes Nelson despite herself, and Nelson eventually finds himself doing the same. They don’t have that instant and nauseating sense of destiny that you get in formulaic romantic comedies. Instead, we see them move through it believably, with Nelson initially just going with the flow while Lisa does the “getting to know you” stuff. It’s funny because of what happens (the cat, “Nuke the Whales”, Milhouse getting brained), but it’s also genuinely plausible. Nelson’s not exactly boyfriend material, and Lisa has a hard time seeing that her caring for him isn’t going to magically turn him into boyfriend material. And none of it requires anyone to look right at the camera and say “meet cute” as a way to shrug their shoulders at mediocrity.
The endings work (or don’t) in similar ways. After Nick (who I keep wanting to call Colin since he’s just as non-descript) comes over for dinner with his bottle of wine, impeccably tasteful suit, and robotically precise manners, he has nowhere to go as a character. He’s confident, handsome, and oh so perfect, and all as (apparently) a little kid. Which is why the next time we see him he’s a completely different person.
Left, At Lisa’s house (12:50); center, on screen but silent (16:40); right, next time he speaks (17:40).
After the scene in the family living room, he literally doesn’t say a word for two commercial breaks. He does find himself in a senior shuttle with Lisa and Grampa, where – for the first time ever – he’s nervous and jerky. What the hell happened? It’s so out of the blue as to be disorienting. The last thing he says at the Simpsons’ house is:
Nick: Mrs. Simpson, I’d like your permission to take your daughter to the Doritos Nutrition Fair at the school gym.
He’s still Mr. Smooth. After he thanks Cletus, it’s this:
Nick: I don’t know, this water’s a little choppy.
Lisa: I thought you rode up the Zambezi without a guide.
Nick: Right. Right.
After that he complains about her cold hands, that his lips are cold, and then just walks away because he’s suddenly sad. This is supposed to be the same kid who confidently flirted with Lisa, took her lots of places, and aced the dreaded first meeting with her parents? They could, of course, have shown us why this change came about. They even had a chance to do it when he was sitting in the living room and Marge demanded that Lisa stop spending so much time with him. That could’ve given him the jitters or something. But, by longstanding Zombie Simpsons convention, he simply wasn’t in that scene even though he was sitting right there. So not only do we get a kid who doesn’t make any sense when we first meet him, he manages to change into a completely different – but equally nonsensical – character before the end.
“Lisa’s Date with Density” doesn’t have anything remotely that clumsy. On the contrary, Lisa and Nelson’s little relationship implodes when it becomes obvious to both of them that they aren’t right for each other. Lisa can’t change Nelson completely and he’s not willing to change enough; so they part on good terms because that’s all there is to it. It’s not the world’s most original idea, but it follows nicely both from who they are outside of this episode and how they act during this particular story.
Of course, I haven’t yet mentioned the elephant in the room, which is that in Season 8 it’s the first time we see Lisa really become involved with someone. From all those Corys to the boy at the library to Langdon Alger, we know she develops the occasional childhood crush, but “Lisa’s Date with Density” was the first time we saw her go after someone. It was also . . . drum roll please . . . her first kiss.
A moment with actual emotional relevance! Careful, Zombie Simpsons might be allergic.
By Season 23, Lisa’s been through four or five relationships. There was the time she fell in love with the environmentalist guy, there was the dude ranch thing, there was the movie, and I think I’m missing a couple. So when she spouts hopelessly naive, romantic comedy gibberish like “The person you kiss under a mulberry tree is someone you’ll love for the rest of your life”, it falls even flatter than it otherwise would. It’s a dumb statement to begin with, but it just doesn’t do coming from someone who used to be mature enough to let Ralph Wiggum down gently and have a successful breakup with Nelson Muntz. “Smell you later”, on the other hand, is great.
Dead Homer Society 
20 responses to “Compare & Contrast: Lisa’s Romances”
This is why its state never-ending is so toxic. Every time they introduce a new character or interest there’s a rapid turnaround where the status quo is restored through some abrupt means and likely, the character is never seen again.
How many Bart gets a girlfriend episodes has there been? How many times has Homer discovered a magical talent?
“How many Bart gets a girlfriend episodes has there been? ”
You know, I was just thinking…. “such-and-such gets a new girlfriend [and you know the relationship will be over by the end of the episode]” is really the worst storyline these kinds of shows can have. There is pretty much no way to do these episodes without being cliche…
Speaking of which, NEDNA… *[cricket-chirping sound]* what a joke. They’re half-way done with this season and NEDNA were only together in, what, the first episode? I mean, the whole thing is fucking lame anyway, but jesus… I think the Simpsons writers already forgot about that whole publicity stunt anyway…
Oh god that nedna bullshit…
I still think “smell you later forever” is a great line despite its Future Bart provenance
“Lisa and Nelson are acting a bit more adolescent and less kid like than they should”
That kind of thing has long been a problem, years before full-blown ZS. Unlike Family Guy and the other McFarlane shows there are no teen characters of note other than Squeaky-Voiced Teen, so it often had elementary school kids acting like teens: boyfriends/girlfriends, driving etc. South Park does the same thing. It really got twisted when Bart was going to marry that pregnant girl in typical ZS episode Little Big Girl.
In New Kid On The Block way back in season 4, one of the best all time episodes, Bart has a crush on a teen girl – and he does so like a KID, not a pseudo-teen. She’s sweet about it, but of course it’s not going to happen because this was still when The Simpsons took place in something resembling the real world.
Speaking of that awful ‘Little Big Girl’ in the good ol’ days when The Simpsons felt real and organic Bart had to use the license maker to make that fake license so he could drive but in ZS the town award him with a drivers license for (unintentionally) saving the town from a fire. And McFarlane shows were never meant to be grounded in reality and McFarlane shows have made fun of clichés like this before.
Great comparison, once again. Thanks for what I enjoy reading.
That Nick thing is perfectly noted as a storyline which could endlessly loop on itself, have they had more time. It felt like they shoved way too much for a 20-min episode, so then they teaspooned the remainder out, with it being the only thing that makes sense. I wish I had another word for that ep, besides saying that it sucks… but I don’t.
I just realised that this episode is rated TV-14 DSLV i’m pretty sure that would be very rare for an 8/7c show? :/
I love these compare and contrasts, but I don’t like when you bring up things like this: “Around the edges of “Lisa’s Date with Density” you can see the problems that, given a few years, would swoop in and eat the show from the inside out.”
I mean…I get it. When you watch classic Simpsons, especially seasons 5-8, you can’t help but notice things that would become huge problems in the future. Whether it’s Homer being a jerkass or emotional contrivance, some of these popped up from time to time even during the classic seasons. However, when they were working on the show pre-season 9, they did not know that this is what was going to happen. People like to complain about Homer’s Enemy and the pandora’s box it opened, but Oakley and Weinstein probably anticipated the show only being on the air for a couple more seasons anyways. Nobody ever anticipated the show lasting THIS LONG, therefore they had no reason to believe that a weak spot here or a weak spot there would become exacerbated during seasons 10+.
Basically, I think you guys are a little too harsh on classic episodes simply because they remind you of problems that would arise later. I don’t disagree that that’s the case, but I don’t think it’s worth downgrading an episode for. Oakley and Weinstein, or David Mirkin, cannot be held responsible for the mess that Mike Scully and Al Jean turned the show into. I’d rather judge these episodes based on their own merits rather than downgrading them because Mike Scully would exagerrate something about it later.
I don’t know about that, it also seems strange to not criticize an episode because no one knew that the show would continue for so long. Even without the context of ZS you can watch the seasons leading up to 10 and see a show with more filler and Flanderization, fewer sensible plots, and just less apparent care in making the episodes. Maybe the decline is made all the more heartbreaking by the continuation of ZS, but worse is worse no matter what came after
“Oakley and Weinstein, or David Mirkin, cannot be held responsible for the mess that Mike Scully and Al Jean turned the show into.”
I try not to hold later episodes against earlier ones for exactly that reason. But even at the time they were first broadcast I thought quite a few episodes in Season 8 weren’t as good as they’d been even just a year or two before. The morning after “The Homer They Fall” aired, my friends and I were in school and we were just puzzled. I remember someone asking “Did Simpsons suck last night?”. We were genuinely surprised. Season 8 has some of the last episodes that I think are indistinguishably good from the peak of the show, but it’s also got a few that I rarely watch, and “Lisa’s Date with Density” is among them.
Imagine if The Homer They Fall was made today… oh boy…
In my view The Homer They Fall is even more ZS than Little Big Mom in season 11, which is consistent with the Dead Homers chronology of 8-11 being a transitional period.
My local station only shows ZS from season 18 and later, and after a while even ZS from the early-mid ’00s seems like a golden age in comparison. How many episodes of the last five seasons of ZS are up to the level of Trilogy of Error, Brawl In The Family, or Thank God It’s Doomsday?
There are ways for everyone to see the success of this show. From the fact that this is a subjective bias-based blog in which the author has his own opinion, the formulation of that particular phrases is not really subject to debate. For example, I personally thing the show went downhill starting Season 11, instead of 8, and was watchable by my standards at least until Season 14-15. Also, “Zombie Simpsons” is not a trademark, so people are free to call it “the Unsimpsons”, “the Sucksons” or by its original name, if they don’t care to distinguish single-digit seasons from double-digit ones.
Like the blog post. New to dead Homers. Haven’t even heard of Zombie Simpsons before.
I haven’t actually seen the newer episode in the compare contrast, but was wanting to make the opposite point to Chris. The romance between Lisa and Nelson is not a good plot in my opinion and the episode is not that good. Don’t fool yourself into thinking all the old episodes were great just because they seem good in comparrison to the new stuff.
Lisa is 8. Is she really behaving in character by going out with anyone? How many nerdy 8 year olds have you met with boyfriends?
I personally think it’d be better if a teenager or twenty-something (possibly voiced by David Spade) turned up at the Simpsons house and was the focus of all these teenage storylines
“Don’t fool yourself into thinking all the old episodes were great just because they seem good in comparrison to the new stuff.”
On that note I have to admit that I really dislike the primary plot of Marge In Chains (season 4) although there are a lot of good moments in the episode.
I actually found the episode average, I didn’t dislike it nor like it, but you still make good points. Nick was severely under-developed. I can actually believe the idea of this kid being suave but actually wimpy – it’s clichéd, perhaps, but believable. But as you said, he has barely any lines so it just comes about incredibly suddenly.
And to be fair to this episode I actually liked the subplot as a bit of fun. I just thought this was not the episode to use it in. It sucked time out of the main plot which needed all the time it could get to flesh out the relationship. But unfortunately, it was there and Nick, as a result, was a completely boring and unmemorable character.
Stan: “That Nick thing is perfectly noted as a storyline which could endlessly loop on itself, have they had more time. It felt like they shoved way too much for a 20-min episode”
Mr. Snrub: “And to be fair to this episode I actually liked the subplot as a bit of fun. I just thought this was not the episode to use it in. It sucked time out of the main plot which needed all the time it could get to flesh out the relationship. But unfortunately, it was there and Nick, as a result, was a completely boring and unmemorable character.”
This is one of those recurring problems that makes me think they don’t care about that stuff at all. The pacing is so bad in these episodes that it almost has to be intentional. Nick didn’t even show up until after they’d gone through a whole bunch of Myth Busters crap and had Homer and Bart go out and have fun. Then he vanished while they had Lisa’s little imagination flashback, and then he didn’t even speak until they were almost at the end. They do this all the time. When Lisa invented that social network a few episodes back, she doesn’t even sit down at the computer until halfway through. That episode with the popped eyeballs didn’t even hint at its grim side effect until there was like two minutes to go. There’s no way writers with that much television experience can think that’s going to work.
What makes you think they care? I don’t see someone who cares fail so pointlessly in building an episode, unless that person is a moron with down syndrome who thinks everyone else is like them.
There was an interview with Micheal Price (writer) who said only 3-4% of the finished episode resembles the pitched script. Really. I wonder if the manic, lack-of pacing is due to the idea being smashed to pieces and then trying to reassemble something isn’t a chaotic mess.
This could explain why there’s so many scenes where characters just randomly appear to fill a plot point rather than have anything to do with the context of the story.